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Eman Secrets - Episode 1 - Extended Experience Information

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:53 pm
by KhalidOmar
Eman experience file contains A LOT of information about positions and moves available for those positions. Not only the depth and the score, but also statistical data for visit count, average score immediately after the move was played, average score after 10 moves, in addition to few other things.

One key value associated with experience moves is called Quality. This is a calculated value, i.e., it is not stored in the experience file, but rather calculated every time the engine loads the experience file.

The move Quality contributes a lot during search to help the engine make better pruning decisions. Also move Quality is the main deciding factor for experience book.

You may already know that, in order to explore inside the experience file, you can use the exp command. The following shows a sample output from the engine:

Code: Select all

 _________   ____    ____        __        ____  _____
|_   ___  | |_   \  /   _|      /  \      |_   \|_   _|
  | |_  \_|   |   \/   |       / /\ \       |   \ | |
  |  _|  _    | |\  /| |      / ____ \      | |\ \| |
 _| |___/ |  _| |_\/_| |_   _/ /    \ \_   _| |_\   |_
|_________| |_____||_____| |____|  |____| |_____|\____|

Eman 4.00-beta2 64-bit POPCNT by Khalid Omar
Build date/time: 2019-Aug-06 16:43:52

Processor                   : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700K CPU @ 4.00GHz
NUMA nodes                  : 1
Processor cores             : 4
Logical processors          : 8
Hyper-Threading             : Yes
L1/L2/L3 cache              : 256 KB / 1 MB / 8 MB
RAM                         : 16 GB

info string Memory LargePages is available

position fen rnbqkbnr/pp1ppppp/8/2p5/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq -
exp

 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 | r | n | b | q | k | b | n | r |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 | p | p |   | p | p | p | p | p |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 |   |   | p |   |   |   |   |   |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 |   |   |   |   | P |   |   |   |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 | P | P | P | P |   | P | P | P |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 | R | N | B | Q | K | B | N | R |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+

Fen: rnbqkbnr/pp1ppppp/8/2p5/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
Key: 77FB86CB90459A66
Checkers:
Experience:
1 : b1c3 , count: 1   , depth: 30, eval: cp 42
2 : g1f3 , count: 2   , depth: 30, eval: cp 37
3 : d1h5 , count: 1   , depth: 25, eval: cp -14
4 : d1f3 , count: 1   , depth: 26, eval: cp -31
5 : a2a3 , count: 6   , depth: 24, eval: cp 48
6 : g2g3 , count: 25  , depth: 26, eval: cp 48
7 : a2a4 , count: 12  , depth: 24, eval: cp 38
8 : g1e2 , count: 4   , depth: 24, eval: cp 34
9 : f1d3 , count: 4   , depth: 24, eval: cp 46
10: f1b5 , count: 1   , depth: 24, eval: cp 21
11: b2b4 , count: 1   , depth: 23, eval: cp 23
12: d1e2 , count: 1   , depth: 25, eval: cp -39
13: f2f3 , count: 1   , depth: 25, eval: cp -31
14: b1a3 , count: 15  , depth: 25, eval: cp 9
15: f2f4 , count: 2   , depth: 23, eval: cp 38
16: e1e2 , count: 1   , depth: 25, eval: cp -125
17: f1c4 , count: 2   , depth: 24, eval: cp 19
18: g1h3 , count: 1   , depth: 23, eval: cp -5
19: e4e5 , count: 1   , depth: 23, eval: cp -26
20: d1g4 , count: 1   , depth: 23, eval: cp -37
Notice that Eman is not showing anything except the move, the visit count, the depth, and evaluation. The other statistical data and Quality is hidden.

THE SECRET: In order to show all experience data (including the calculated Quality) for a certain position, you can execute another command called expex

Sample output:

Code: Select all

 _________   ____    ____        __        ____  _____
|_   ___  | |_   \  /   _|      /  \      |_   \|_   _|
  | |_  \_|   |   \/   |       / /\ \       |   \ | |
  |  _|  _    | |\  /| |      / ____ \      | |\ \| |
 _| |___/ |  _| |_\/_| |_   _/ /    \ \_   _| |_\   |_
|_________| |_____||_____| |____|  |____| |_____|\____|

Eman 4.00-beta2 64-bit POPCNT by Khalid Omar
Build date/time: 2019-Aug-06 16:43:52

Processor                   : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700K CPU @ 4.00GHz
NUMA nodes                  : 1
Processor cores             : 4
Logical processors          : 8
Hyper-Threading             : Yes
L1/L2/L3 cache              : 256 KB / 1 MB / 8 MB
RAM                         : 16 GB

info string Memory LargePages is available

position fen rnbqkbnr/pp1ppppp/8/2p5/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq -
expex

 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 | r | n | b | q | k | b | n | r |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 | p | p |   | p | p | p | p | p |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 |   |   | p |   |   |   |   |   |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 |   |   |   |   | P |   |   |   |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 | P | P | P | P |   | P | P | P |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 | R | N | B | Q | K | B | N | R |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+

Fen: rnbqkbnr/pp1ppppp/8/2p5/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
Key: 77FB86CB90459A66
Checkers:
Experience:
1 : b1c3 , count: 1   , depth: 30, eval: cp 42 , next eval: cp 43 , next X eval: cp 27 , quality: 60
2 : g1f3 , count: 2   , depth: 30, eval: cp 37 , next eval: cp 29 , next X eval: cp 26 , quality: 48
3 : d1h5 , count: 1   , depth: 25, eval: cp -14, next eval: cp 49 , next X eval: cp 41 , quality: 47
4 : d1f3 , count: 1   , depth: 26, eval: cp -31, next eval: cp 50 , next X eval: cp 37 , quality: 43
5 : a2a3 , count: 6   , depth: 24, eval: cp 48 , next eval: cp 30 , next X eval: cp 25 , quality: 30
6 : g2g3 , count: 25  , depth: 26, eval: cp 48 , next eval: cp 11 , next X eval: cp 27 , quality: 24
7 : a2a4 , count: 12  , depth: 24, eval: cp 38 , next eval: cp 4  , next X eval: cp 27 , quality: 11
8 : g1e2 , count: 4   , depth: 24, eval: cp 34 , next eval: cp 5  , next X eval: cp 25 , quality: 10
9 : f1d3 , count: 4   , depth: 24, eval: cp 46 , next eval: cp 11 , next X eval: cp 18 , quality: 10
10: f1b5 , count: 1   , depth: 24, eval: cp 21 , next eval: cp 35 , next X eval: cp 7  , quality: 10
11: b2b4 , count: 1   , depth: 23, eval: cp 23 , next eval: cp 0  , next X eval: cp 35 , quality: 10
12: d1e2 , count: 1   , depth: 25, eval: cp -39, next eval: cp 55 , next X eval: cp -1 , quality: 5
13: f2f3 , count: 1   , depth: 25, eval: cp -31, next eval: cp -9 , next X eval: cp 41 , quality: 1
14: b1a3 , count: 15  , depth: 25, eval: cp 9  , next eval: cp 0  , next X eval: cp 23 , quality: 0
15: f2f4 , count: 2   , depth: 23, eval: cp 38 , next eval: cp 4  , next X eval: cp 5  , quality: -11
16: e1e2 , count: 1   , depth: 25, eval: cp -125, next eval: cp 30 , next X eval: cp 13 , quality: -19
17: f1c4 , count: 2   , depth: 24, eval: cp 19 , next eval: cp -54, next X eval: cp 38 , quality: -22
18: g1h3 , count: 1   , depth: 23, eval: cp -5 , next eval: cp -34, next X eval: cp 19 , quality: -36
19: e4e5 , count: 1   , depth: 23, eval: cp -26, next eval: cp -85, next X eval: cp 14 , quality: -81
20: d1g4 , count: 1   , depth: 23, eval: cp -37, next eval: cp -80, next X eval: cp 8  , quality: -85

Re: Eman Secrets - Episode 1 - Extended Experience Information

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:20 am
by grigchess
Is it true that if the more Eman.exp file in size the better it wll play? If so, will it play better if I use somebody else's Eman.exp file that is bigger in size than mine?
And further
Is it possible to achieve a good experience file by replaying numerous games played by strong engines on a powerful computer, that is, forcing the Eman engine to make moves from those games, for example, in which these engines won?

Re: Eman Secrets - Episode 1 - Extended Experience Information

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:58 am
by KhalidOmar
What really matters that you have relevant experience to the position you are playing now. If you have big experience file that does not contain information about the current position then that experience is useless for the game you are playing.

Yes it is possible to replay the games as you mentioned, but you need to let Eman think for some time about each move being played before proceeding to the next move. In other words, you have to leat Eman reach the configured "Experience min depth" while thinking about each move before that move becomes eligible for saving in the experience file.

Re: Eman Secrets - Episode 1 - Extended Experience Information

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:59 am
by KhalidOmar
grigchess wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:20 am Is it true that if the more Eman.exp file in size the better it wll play? If so, will it play better if I use somebody else's Eman.exp file that is bigger in size than mine?
And further
Is it possible to achieve a good experience file by replaying numerous games played by strong engines on a powerful computer, that is, forcing the Eman engine to make moves from those games, for example, in which these engines won?
In order to keep things organized I would suggest that you create a new topic rather than replying to an existing one with a question that is not related to the topic you are replying to :)

Re: Eman Secrets - Episode 1 - Extended Experience Information

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:17 am
by rulleeeee
I have a question. Is it possible for Eman to experience various motor games? For example, there is a database of 10,000 games and using this database, Eman saves these games in his experience file?

Re: Eman Secrets - Episode 1 - Extended Experience Information

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:40 pm
by KhalidOmar
rulleeeee wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:17 am I have a question. Is it possible for Eman to experience various motor games? For example, there is a database of 10,000 games and using this database, Eman saves these games in his experience file?
Hello, Eman will only save the moves it plays during a game or during analysis. Eman will also save the opponent moves if playing a complete game.

It depends on how you use this database with Eman, if you somehow make Eman analyze those games (Using IDeA for example) then definitly Eman will be adding moves from this database into its database.

There is no "stable" feature in Eman yet to build experience data from a games database. That is something I'm working on and will hopefully find a way to make it work!

Re: Eman Secrets - Episode 1 - Extended Experience Information

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:04 pm
by Tuxpower
Hi

The Eman.exp not always increase after every game, it stay many times for awhile on the same size.

I use Eman 4.30

Thanks

Re: Eman Secrets - Episode 1 - Extended Experience Information

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:49 pm
by KhalidOmar
Hello Tuxpower, Eman.exp will increase 28 bytes for every experience move it generates. This is a small amount and unless the size difference is more than 1024 bytes then Windows explorer may not show you the difference.

You can verify that the experience file is being updated by checking the last modified date.

Also, double-check that you have the option "Experience readonly" disabled otherwise the engine will no be writing to the experience file.

Re: Eman Secrets - Episode 1 - Extended Experience Information

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:09 pm
by Tuxpower
Hi KhalidOmar

Thank you :)

Re: Eman Secrets - Episode 1 - Extended Experience Information

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:08 pm
by Alapin
Hi
Can i ask u if the experience file from Raubfish and Brainlearn is the same like we have in Eman?
Grets
Alapin